notes → saturday
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Playlist: http://constantvzw.org/vj14/documents/summit.ods
Notes are taken here, please join :-)
glossary:
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thematic O: http://note.pad.constantvzw.org:8000/1085
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little feedback on 'home as a server' with links to pictures & video: http://note.pad.constantvzw.org/group.html/20/pad.html/g.y0XQmroqxr3RE7Y8$home%20as%20a%20server
evening@w-o-l-k-e:
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Feminist Server Summit - Variable
Moderator Reni Hoffmuller / co-founder of Mur.at
no logical thread in contributions
1 change: Frederic (All2All) in the morning, Reseau Citoyen in the afternoon
15 min/person
Video Mur.at (yogi)
atmosphere in server room
Jara Rocha reading Jogi Hofmüller's letter:
*bio of the server
started 1986, server for artist's art
many servers now
*Gender of your server?
1st server 'Fox' , Fuxin,in general machine is female
after names of animals -> names of plants
Pig, Bee, Wasp, Poodle, Hornet, Ant,
Wood (Wald), Birk, Willow, Alder
Meadow, Clover
-> all plants have gender in German, we refer to them wth he/she.
How does the law deal with him/her and how does she/he deal with the law? I don't understand the he/she in this question.
* How do you take care of server
Four people work part time to take care of the servers.
Juliane, Samedies http://samedi.collectifs.net
(red hair, glasses, programmer and mathematician, always in company of her dog Bug -she did not choose the name of her dog herself :-))
collective feminist server
They asked to send a picture of our server but (??)
People of Constant are also part of the project
Name of the server: Amaya
The project took a long time to take off. There were many parties involved that wanted a collective feminist server. Juliane arrived later. 2005 - 2007 to make the server, open to the public, hosting services.
It's an alternative host of feminist organisations
queer review of server language
They decided to have our own administration from 2005 to 2007, feminist project and open to public
In 2007 they were online and ready to host ot projects but also wanted to deal with the problem of cognitive autogestion.
samedi.collectifs.net/spip.php?article66 --> nice pictures page
Gender:
we thought of it as feminine, but it is trans: amaya is 'mother/she-wolf', puppies learning and wanting to understand and influence politically the internet
We were all admin
Juliane describes the group involved as cubs learning about the world while setting up Amaya. Learning about firewalls, configurations, ... the hard way.
Volunteer to be the interface with the law. Awareness and preparation for cases such as open access, censorship, political implications, but they never had any problems. It takes time to set all this up.
They created a response team, all admin of Amaya, in case she got comprimised/attacked. They had sessions to learn more about the political side, for instance ACTA.
Last year it stopped. Finally they didn't host other organisations. They were in their auto-training mode. Now they choose to invest themselves in other existing projects. Domain public, Constant, ... They were working so much on admin, security updates, too many maintainance not enough content.
In 2007 they decided on the objectives and training was one of the most important goals, and they succeeded in this. They hosted an /etc for instance
Reni: taking care of infratructure, understand it, is also content
Agnes from Samedi project: it was not only about the server, also about women and free software. We all learned lots about free software and how to become master of your machine. We moved on but we have many projects now, the focus has simply shifted from samedi to other things. The website developement has stopped.
Reni comments that it would be great if the website was updated with the projects former collective members are working on now. To show that the collective is not "dead", that is lives on through other channels.
says it was not only around the server. It was a women project. Hips of things about free software and how become master of the machine and how not to despair. When the machine wants to become master of you!
Reni : did you put this on the website so that people undertstand ?
Agnes : no, not really, maybe we should put it there.
Reni : it's always nice to know it did not fall apart just moved on to other strategies. it is important.
Commentary : why be the "master" of the machine ? is it the enemy ? is it not rather a companion and a partner, i mean through appropriation it is perhaps more interesting to see it as a process of friendship (as proprietary stuff is taken rid of) rather than of domination...
10:56 Wendy tests and introduces a MIC :) yezzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
All2all (Frederic) http://all2all.net
-----------------------
Moving Art Studio. founding organisation for artists run space with Jens Ingo (on the program on Sunday)
1984 Stop hosting in between four physical walls, and move into a server, virtual exhibitions. Everyone talking to everyone.
it used to be an artist run space from 1984
found in 1984. Were interested in electronic arts in general
stop hosting in real life to host in the electronic virtual hosting, started with brussels 2000
all2all : everybody talks to everybody, and the 2 is us, and actually only two of us are left
hosting in the real ife than move to electronic, virtual hosting.
we started with Brussel 2000 (Brussels as Cultural Capital of Europe) with a grant to start the idea of all 2 all, everybody talking to everybody and the 2 would be us.
Only 2 people remaining: Frederic + Jens Ingo
we printed a little flyer, you can have a look [flyer goes round]
i have only three
the idea was to work only with free soft so to be completely indenpendent, no more grants from the state. we used to do that for the exhibits we would organise but no longer wanted to have the constraint of the commercial result the grants ask for.
Being completely independent, no grants from the state. In the past they were relying on funding but in 84 they decided to stop this and be self-reliant.
only working with free software
our services have to be stand-alone, free from any political point of view
website: http://all2all.net
(no orange for catholics :-))
Their website shows the three colors of liberals (blue), socialists (red) and green party (...).
if you want to see what we are offering now : hosting, domain names
Frederic manages the communication between data center and all2all, and all2all and the customers. At some point they had 3 datacenters, but it became too complicated. The crisis also helped simplify things...
11:04 Frederic is showing photos of the old datacenters with battery packs in case of power outage, cooling systems,protected area with 2 feet in shoes with blue protective covers, fire extinguishers, fiberoptic routing, racks, structured cabeling with colorcoding.
http://img.all2all.net/main.php?g2_itemId=13
different datacenters that they use
They have a datacenter. Debian GNU/Linux.
several thousands euro/month to have a space in datacenter
why this option?
direct access to fiberoptics.
so you can be delivered at home but it costs as much.
200 servers and not all theservers belong to us.
3 main servers services:
- Share hosting
- Virtual hosting
- Dedicated servers: people have server in rack and manage themselves (ex. Constant)
a lot of the machines are belonging to third parties
they basically offer management
[11:15 door bell!]
Reni: what is all2all doing?
Frederic: managing. Electricity, connection to internet, ...
yellow design fiberoptics from the ceiling
rack look like office cupboards, when you open them, it is a spiderweb of wires
lots of labels
Reni: what gender would these servers have?
Frederic: servers all are penetrated by cables, so I would say they are female. They like to be penetrated. [collective consternation adn gniffing] But funnily enough they all have male names. It started with all male artists that started this. Nobody thought of this problem of giving male or female names. We like it to be personified, to connect to "jesus", "mohammed", "lumbumba"...
all are female
Commentary : ???? since when is being penetrated a woman exclusivity??? or main caracteristic ?
names: jesus, mohamed, ... (oh god!)
No name like Rosa Luxemburg, or Cleopatra
Reni : what is your relation to law ? does all2all have a principle ?
All2all :
back in the 80s, there was a law obliging all electronic services to keep logs for one year, and we were very afraid of that because it meant the authorities could trace you, see who was connected, etc.
back in the years
we never had real problems with the authorities : a charter on the website that say that everybody has to follow the belgian law, but we don't interfere with that. a lot of activists on the server, and sometimes we do have contact with the police, like once someone put a fire in an animal lab and put photos of that online. if they don't have a paper from justice, a warrant, we don't run their service directly, we rather have it run by another (server?) organization and we let them know about the interest expressed by the police.
In their contract they have a clause where customers have to follow the Belgian law.
we do sometimes have contact with the police. Once, someone took compromising pictures and uploaded them on the server and police wanted access. we require a warrant without which we do nothing. If they have one, we do not host these people directly? it is a server run by anoither organisation that we get in touch with and let them know the police is looking into their server.
During a workshop where they were building a server the police arrived with 10 men. But here in Belgium it is not a US style police raid where they take all equipment. We know them and can work things out in a less agressive way. All2all follows the law so if a customer breaks the law and the police takes action on it and demands action of all2all,they erase the illegal material. They have never had to give access to a mutualised server. It was always clients running a server themselves opening up for instance to anyone posting images.
once you deal with the police chiefs they are used to it. there is no confiscation like in Germany. They know who we are. Sometimes with pedophile issues, we follow the law. if people are convicted of crime, we will erase the material if justice requires it. We never interfere unless we have to.
-Do you give access to the police to all the servers ?
- This has never happened.
what happened once is that i received a phone call from someone claiming to be an American journalist, and there was an extreme-left organization that put a bomb in Mexico that happenned to have been a customer. I would have liked to help the journalist (was he actually a journalist in the first place ?) but I didn't since it's not our policy.
- is it because you like the person or because it's mandatory by law ?
- without a warrant, we don't give information.
An american journalist approached all2all for contact details of customers. They have very strict rules for this. They don't give out any information on customers, even though their first instinct was to help the journalist out. Only with a warrant of the police they will have to comply, says Frederic.
Never.
11:19 Reni passes the mic to Frederic Peters of Domaine Public.
Frederic from Public Domain http://www.domainepublic.net
-----------------------------------------
I'll try to be precise with the collective history of the group, still my version might be slightly different.
Frederic joined 5 years ago, but DP started 10 years ago, he can't tell much about the beginning of the collective. It started as a group of friends. They preferred the idea of people being autonomous on the internet rather than relying on a company like geocities, for instance.
DP started by offering infrastructure to squats, underground mouvements, activists offering servers, auto-infrastructure, help with Spip.
We were a small group, we all knew each other.
- mailserver
- mailinglists
for 2-3 years, they have been developing alternative services. Hosting Etherpad, owncloud, etc. (instead of using google apps...)
for instance, development of Nuages instead of doodle http://nuages.domainepublic.net/
Manifeste of the Web independant in 1998: http://www.uzine.net/article60.html
Their version: http://www.domainepublic.net/Charte.html
Reni : did you decide this or was it the users asking for it ?
They didn't want people to be forced to use Google because of a lack of alternatives. They gave their users email adresses and now owncloud. They offer these services without ppl asking for it. No publicity, word of mouth.
F : we did this. Our users were taking care of us asking for something different.
They were forced to use google because of the lack of alternatives.
a lot of people use Nuages instead of doodle.
We host one thousand two hundred email addresses, we have about 1000 mailing lists
we meet our users in bars (it is true!)
They have 3 servers. We don't have naming conventions. One was named Vacarme (Din) because it was very noisy, another one was called Ginger because of the color), and a third one, Lucy. Frederic doesn't know the story behind that name.
Vacarme is one of the servers names - he was making a lot of noise.
Another is Lucy, she is female but i don't know the story about this, maybe it was the first one.
Reni: so you don't perceive them as having a gender?
Frederic: we don't think of the machines as having a gender.
I
emancipation, 'empowering people' (Acer used it already...)
The law
11:31 Frederic: We try to ignore the law. We try not to deal with them. the law considers us as a hosting provider. They had some copyright infringement emails about for instance an mp3. It concerned an artistic project that was using the name of an existing artist, but the track was someting completely different.
we hosted for a while a Tor exit node, we actually wanted to host a bridge node and we misconfigured it. (cfr notes Friday morning)
The law is okay with that.
We've had some emails but not much.
About an mp3, i don't remember the author, it was an artist's project using another artist's name, it was just a robot sending a notification email.
They don't host public domain name servers. Domain name servers are more and more forced to not deal with the real IP. so if we want to really go agaist the law, we could host a domain name server that does exactly that. It could be a role for collective servers. Riseup is offering VPN and we should also offer such things.
More and more domain names in Belgium are encouraged not to give the actual IP address
- you mean a proxy service ?
- it was just for the dns. vpn, etc. riseup is providing vpn services for instance, and we are considering it. It is not forbidden...
wendy : are you in contact with riseup ?
we are in contact, from time to time.Also with a French association called onion (sp?) which provides tor services.
AWere ndy: you are in coyou in ntact contact with with networks like riseup (beautiful!!!!) :)
11:37 Jara Rocha :
[Blackboard falls off the wall - nothing breaks, but it produces a break]
Camp
http://camputer.org
Unfortunately nobody from CAMP could join us so Jara will read the email exchange.
11:40: Jara Rocha reads a conversation thread (through email exchange) about (amongst other things )Verbindingen/Jonctions.
--> copy email here, but Jara's voice is so nice to listen to
discussion at a moment of a server crash, not sure if they had backups
Sanjay: trying his hand at serious webdevelopment but isn't sure f that ws a good move. Maybe move back into art or a happy middle way.
You Europeans are crazy, it's awesome (in response to the description of 'Are you being served?').
--> causes laugher and fist of Reni in the air
Meawhile Second dog arrives, an Australian shepherd mini ? Her name is Flèche.
So, Bug meets Arrow :-)
[11:42: another dog enters the room, Bug starts playing with Flèche]
no magic, no cloud, no backup
In the same email, while writing, the server came back up!
This was what he was working on the past year in the new york public library: dev.nypl.gazetteer.in
i host a bunch of nonsense for people, i don't even know why
What gender is your server? I've never thought of my servers having gender. it is a box sitting in a datacenter, I have definitely a relationship to, that's strange
i'm not sure that my laptop has a gender either, sometimes it's a male, sometimes a female.
it's ethereal, it's like a box, but then I have a relationship to it, so i guess it must have a gender.
I've been thinking a lot about autonomous hosting. The political climate in India is increasingly interesting to me.
i have to give a copy of my passport to have a server
how can you take care of your server and how it takes care of you ?
nsa
You crazy Europeans are probably the best bet for the planet.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Guifi http://guifi.net
11:48 Gabriel of Guifi.
webm.es/vj14/
http://webm.es/vj14/presentacion.pdf
And back fom the tea/coffee/pipi/(sound poetry by Reni) sound-check break
I take part in a group of people, a community telecommunication network, a group of people that build and manage and enjoy computers.
11:59 Very hands-on building stuff. Showing a picture of ppl putting up an antenna.
He presents Elinor Ostrom, and her book Governing the Commons - The Evolution of institutions for Collective Action.
Elinor Ostrom, governing the commons.
Understanding knowledge as a commons, ed. charlotte hess and elinor ostrom.
Any telecommunication network can be thought of as commons :)
[picture of 2 dogs/donkies? fighting, then joining] :-) [I only see half of the screen!]
A theory that a common ressource each of the person would tend to be selfish.
A second theory the state should be the owner and distribute.
In the book, Elinor
Internet is a bunch of tubes. Fiberoptic cables. Physical infrastructure. It has an on/off button. Whole countries can be switched off.
do people know what the internet is ? mostly, no.
You can be switched off, if you do not own the infrastructure and that is not the way it should be.
{picture : GPL free software
OPEN, FREE, NEUTRAL ...}
Free software is the fight of our time, but it is getting a bit old. It's not just about the software also about the law, infrastructure, ...
l
23000 nodes working in Spain
He started http://madrid.guifi.net because he noticed there were no nodes in Madrid!
http://guifi.net/es/
He was the only one with a friend, started a blogm talking to people
'making a network without a network is strange'
Reni: Are you linked in any way to nodo50. http://info.nodo50.org/
Nod050 is not linked to guifi, it's an activist platform in Spain.
{picture : Growth chart of working nodes, the line goes up from 2005 to today for guifi.net }- exponential growth
in Osona, it's quite difficult to have connection with isp, Catalunya, or Spain is better.
There is a un unbalance in Spain with big regional differences in internet access.Catalunya has much better infrastructure than for instance Osona. On European level, it's the same (??).
{picure : chart of internet access speed per country : First country is Denmark, France is 7th or 8th, Greece almost on the bottom of the list, Spain in the middle.}
s o
picture : classical model of an isp & the alternative way Guilfi is doing, cutting many of the intermediaries btw the isp and the final customer
Guifi is legal ISP
agnostic in technology: when there are better solutions, they'll go for it
putting antenna on the roof "internet comes from the sky"
Internet comes from the sky with Guifi the antennas are often put at the highest point which,in most villages, is the church. The main antenna and connection would be for instance paid for by the council, and the village would all connect to this central hub.
{picture of a node on a roof under the sun}
it's just not about infrastructure but organizing communities as well : lots of tools for that. contacting people thru lists and they have wikis too.
we participate in a lot of international activities, open spectrum, and so on.
12:11 still 4 minutes left for THE questions :)
reni : we'd like to know your idea about the gender ? do you view the infrastructure as a gender ? something between male/female/machine
infrastructure as a community. first nerds and then nerds + normal people.
http://webm.es/vj14/gender/61.jpg
http://webm.es/vj14/gender/62.jpg
i wouldn't be myself without a machine. merging with machines as a new gender.
Commentary : THIS is so much more promising than the Master and Servant dialectic.
the servers in the beginning were for us like a nerd and then it started changing, they became like a normal person.
{great anti-google-glass picture - closer to the head bubbles from the architect group XX? from the seventies}
Merging with machines, so attached to the object he could imagine a fusion.
Relation to the law?
we participated in building the law. it's more expensive to create isp. we are close to CMT - comision del mercado de las comunicationes
Refers to Digital Agenda for Europe 2010-2020 - manifesto by big companies as Spotify http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/
Commons for Europe more conceptual/theoretical European project guifi is involved in.
--------------------------------
12:18 Calafou - Spideralex
http://www.calafou.org
[afterwards Bitnik & lunch!!! irational.org later]
no-server project: still a dream
Colonia ecoindustrial postcapitalista, trans-feminist. (cfr notes Thrusday morning)
We come from calafou, 60 km outside Barcelona.
I will present our NO-server project.
started two years ago
trans-feminist,
Showing photo's of Calafou. Abandoned buildling with 27 flats, in the process of rebuilding, renting 1 euro per 1m2. 40 ppl with visitors coming and going.
building with 27 flats that we are rebuilding
rent space 1 m2 for one euro to host projects, very wide range of programms, not just technology.
developping free technologies : hack permanently the gender
hardlab : hardware laboratory run by 3 women
We see pictures of the space. Women and dogs between cables, tables and windows.
And also a man, screens, graffiti and drawers. Also many 'shitcoin-developers' (bitcoin) -- she is ready to discuss this afterwards
hacklab
The project of the feminist server started a year and a half ago. we don't have it yet.
There has been a lot of macho campaigns against feminist groups in Spain recently.
Hunter hunted project against harrassement. Posting videos of men harrassing women on commercial platforms.
Alicia Morillo asked for feminist server because of harassment
'El cazador cazado' http://www.pikaramagazine.àcom/2012/09/7109/
She realised she could not find hosting for her work. Censorship. So urgent need for feminist server. Not easy to have one yet but getting there.
We are 12 women and one boy. Hackers, activists, and many different feminists. Cyberfeminists, post-porno feminists, etc. and we like it that way.
we are squatters, activists, feminists, working with free software.
http://pechblenda.hotglue.me
http://lucysombra.org
http://donestech.net
in a lot of different fronts in the same time
We made a hack meeting in calafou to see the demands and the needs. we saw
that trans-gender and feminist need a server.
we got this virtual machine and try to work on it.
our server is a woman, even if we deconstructed gender
An afro-americam slave, Anarcha, is the name we gave to our server. Operated 20 times by Dr. James Marion Sims (1813-1883) of South Carolina, the so-called "Father & Founder of Modern Gynecology without anasthesy (although it already existed)
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/anarcha.htm
Female server: Anarcha.
We revendicate this figure, we fight against racisme and abuse but we also like her name : Anarcha, like anarchism.
also the figure of feminist fighter in the spanish civil war
Servidor Feminista : the picture of a beautiful girl with a rifle gun from the resistance movement in Barcelona civil war
why are we late for our server to do hosting ?
There are very different levels of technical knowledge and it is also difficult to meet on a regular basis. And then there are power relations... bottleneck.
power relations also happening in feminist collective, with sharing knowledge
We have urgent problems all the time, the roof falls apart, etc.
we spend a lot of time dealing with translcation, pedagogy, and other projects and this time hasn't been spent working on the server
Need for time to catch up with skills to build servers, cause in the past more time was spent on other essentials like pedagogy, translation, education. Need to make choices there.
-> in brussels they took time to learn but no server hosting, que pasa?
that's slow but we'll go far
This year a gathering for feminists (/etc electronic tech carnival) is going to happen in August in Calafou
We want this to become a meeting point for south and north, to come up with new economies, synergies, etc.
2013 and still a lot of feminist collectives don't have a server they need with a political nearness.v
12h31 door bell!
What about the law ?
we don't talk with the police.
we do not talk to Police, never.
Reni : for history/herstory/whatever, are you writing down the process in which you're going thru ?
permanent tension when wanting autnonomy (large ideological panel):
we think we should do everything, for cleaning the toilet to running the software. we document a lot our process generally, the consent we get through general assembly
In general we document a lot our processes. Decision making is done with consent. We put it in our free social network. We keep trying to gather and it does not happen, so we are loooking into new ways.
Shitcoin -> many of us are anarchist, cooperativism, bitcoin developers in calafou are individualist, not respecting consensus and prioritizing individual freedom. Experimenting with alternative currencies is great, but anarcho-capitalism: no thank you. That issue needs to be addressed more properly by the free software community. They are anarchists like Sid Vicious was an anarchist.
individual anarchists vs cooperativist archivist
One more presentation by BITNIK and then lunch.
---------------------------------------------
12:12:35:35 bitnik35 :):-)
http://wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.bitnik.org/
12h36
art collective
experience from our first server
founded in 2003 (?), in 2001 first server at the art university
Our art practice is very much grown out of the experiecne we had with our first server in Zurich.
After analysing we realised we needed the keys to understand how the inside worked.
So we placed our first server behind the cables and also two telephone lines to our studio, we did phone/network experiments. It lasted 2 years during which we provoked situations with the server but we were in an art scholl, everything was permitted, such a nice place to start.
They hacked smsonline service for school kids. You could send 600 sms-s per hour.We wrote scripts and we had 2000 telephone numbers and send sms concerning parties and stuff when email wouldn't work. messages of local interest to the arts/squatting/diy/free party community.
We also set up blogs on questions of housing, squatting, we tried to share access and lose control of stuff, it often made the servers crash of course and lost back-ups
with information, it happens all the time.
net experiments
we provoked some situations with the server
There was something called Schoolnet (Switzerland)
with sms services for schoolkids, you could send out 600 sms per minute. They were writing scripts were you could send out texts very fast.
the sms were connected to squatting or illegal parties, the script was public in a sense and it
quickly started hosting blogs around questions of housing for students, etc.
the idea was to share access and lose control.
we did experiments with phone servers, or forging emails...we found out how to do the credit card thing and make free phonecalls, make the whole city's public phones ring at the same time, write emails to the headmaster, etc.
we were part of a group that squatted cabaret voltaire, the founding place of dada. some promoters wanted to build luxury apartments, so we used our server to fight against that. we wanted the house to become a public institution, we realized we needed strong arguments. we faked that we had strong architectural plans : a stunt : we said that cafe odeon dada-place, was going to be a pharmacy (there are many pharmacies in Zurich)
there's far too many pharmacies in Zurich.
success-story: is selfrun organisation supported by Swatch
Anna Blume was the name of the server, in relation to Dada, the avant-garde movement that was practically born in that café. We used a voice singing out the press-releases.
it was connected to squatting or illegal parties, the script was public in a sense, to
with sms services for schoolkids, you could send out 600 sms per minute. They were righting scripts were you could send out texts shortly before parties etc. reAlways tried to share access, loose controll by giving out logins with admin rights to give out logins yourself.
We were part of the group squatting le Cabaret Voltaire. Spiegelgasse 12. At the moment they went in it was abandoned. They were planning luxury apartments there. They wanted to save the house, make it a public institution, survive there. Lots of media attention. They faked a plan, they said they found an architectural plan in the building. They want to build a pharmacy here in cultural heritage! The news jumped on it and it raised a lot of attention from artist/activists wanting to save the building. Swatch, the Swiss watchmaker, did the prefounding, now it's a selfrun space. Journalists would gather round an old unix machine reading out press releases from BITNIK.
Gender is not that relevant to us now. We are back in the university of Zurich with our servers, directly linked to backbone, fast connections. We host BITNIK but also other things. They used to be hosted in Germany. They once had a problem with the police in Zurich because someone spraypainted the url of the open access point on houses. But since they were hosted in Germany they needed a warant from the German police and nothing ever happened. No legal consequences.
There is a law that forces you to keep logs of everything happening on the server, but they never did this. Art university was a great place to experiment cause it was all in the name of artistic practice. Copyright legal issues were acceptable in this context.
They connected to SPC and Ushi because they needed a larger network for a recent project. They are very pragmatic, they prefer connecting with like minded organisations but will also use commercial services if they need the space/bandwidth/...
We are post-gender. Gender is not that relevant to us now.
post-gender now : it's not so relevant to us now
our server at the university is on the backbone, very quicky
for a while, we were in germany at a commercial host, we had some problems
we hosted bitnik on the machine but also other stuff. somebody spray-painted the open house url on the facades of houses. accused by the police of illegal advertisement on public spaces
it's important than we can have direct access to our machines. we have our own server and we have a network of cultural institutions, like access space
we experimented with file sharing networks - we ran into copyright trouble
The police tried to sue us, they said you do illegal advertisment in public space but they didn't do anything finally.
Nowadays they have grown, they have linux users, do experiments on the server (not very stable)
important to have physical acess to the machine.
--> Bitnik ~ zenmasters
they also have become close to several institutions they can collaborate with, depending on the project they are doing.
under umbrella of 'experiment' in art dept of university: download 1000 films & copyright issues... experiments with filesharing, rewriting --- thrust between partners/humanssss
important for us : it's about trusted links, we do cross-backup with irational.org for instance
if we need a huge network for a moment, we went into contact with ? + spc
it's always better to go with trusted link, and if not we go for commercial service
i would never put stuff on amazon, as long as there are alternatives
for the last work we did we needed larger scale network temporarily so we tried to find a trusted link but if we don't we will also use commercial stuff.
But we're very happy to have our own server: it is mobile
back with a video interview with kate rich, irational.org sysadmin
{GAP <-- typing inertia because of lunch break and digestion slowing down the hands and brains}
14:06
A very physical action that has big virtual effects
their projects include books that carry data stories
this virtual homes, theses servers always have bodily parameters.
how much space, etc.
public school is an interface where you can organise yourself to teach and gather around knowledge.
Sean Dockray (field notes from the cloud) started this here.
He is researching the physical infrastructures of data centers, i.e. Facebook.
they are situated in northern countries to keep the servers cool.
weise7 catalog http://weise7.org/book/ a book becomes a server when it's open
{ picture : power use effectiveness PUE
the CLOUD
some people have no home anymore, they just put it in a cloud.
where does the name cloud come from ?
in old diagrams you have clouds appear as an insight in the network, it is what you don't care about, you presume it is there.
HOTELbich
Hotel could be a nice notion to understand that you have a room but people can come look inside, it needs maintenance,
a lot of maintenance is invisible
Artists involved in server projcts
Taryn Simon, Transatlantic sub-marine (http://tarynsimon.com/index.php)
Mierle Laderman Ukeles (performance with trash workers in NYC) (http://reconfiguringsite.sva.edu/guest-lecturers/laderman-ukeles/)
VARIABLE
she shows diagram of hosting services currently given in the festival Jonctions 14.
She personnaly did not want to be served ,she passed it on to Maria.
First Ghost Host ever, Catherine Lenoble, said her heater ("server") went down and she could not offer hospitality.
Stefan Panhans, Dumb Time, For a practice of horizontality. A project dealing with sleep as a form of resistance.
Curated by Anke Hoffman and XX?
Superchannel web TV for the people by the people.
: we are not dead, we are just sleeping !
sleep as a form of resistance: http://archiv2012.shedhalle.ch/en/exhibitions/dump-time-practice-horizontality
Understand when the computer goes into sleep mode, shut down, etc. through energy consumption. Extensions in five acts where the computer becomes the server, a wiki for content, to get out of the house get the server out, even though it is cold. they can cool it down easily the big companies, less energy can be used for data centers !
Let's install a network base to keep the computer working !!
www.ooooo.be
Outside in the garden we collectively performed a computer. Bolwerk, a performance by Marthe van Dessel. We installed a webserver with a wiki and cooked up some delicious content (pancakes).
==================================================================
Home is a server - collective performance led by Marthe van Dessel - Bolwerk
coming soon!!! :)
14:59 Femke introduces the afternoon and eveningprogram at w-o-l-k-e
* video Kate Rich, irational
http://www.irational.org/
video after breakfast
15:07 apple juice turned into a sauce with blue corn pancakes
[An: I have more or less a transcription of the video when they start talking about the server jippie ;-)]
question about gender
military
despot built inside unix
media archaeology of the irational server - for a research in a german university
"do as little as possible" as a sysadmin motto, to the point that we don't do update
On a unix server the governed are not aware there is a dictatorship in place. I think some of us are aware...
Root has so much power.Being root alone would be super uncomfortable. Together there is a 'sociale controle'... Two generals is not normal military practice.
"Don't tinker" as guiding principle for sys admins. But at the same time you have to be super paranoid and active watching logs to see all the attacks coming at you. logwatch monitoring. People ARE trying to kill you. lol Schizoid situation.
people looking for bitcoin into directory. to be a sysadmin : combination of being paranoid and very relax.
femke : relationships btw an house and a server.
it's like being a janitor, an invisible caretaker
O: mother is root in this dynamic analogy of sys admin being janitor of a building that needs to communicate carefully when entering personal space. You can't go through someones underwear drawer or like a mother cannot read a daughters diary.
Femke : the mother reading the diary is an authoritarian figure
law : we're paranoid about that, i can't remember what happened. marcus (no longer a member of irational, he does pirate radio) got a phone call at home saying that his phone will be cut.
He is a family man and does not want any trouble so he just stopped. They menaced him they would cut his phone, etc? he didn't even bother sueing.
15h22 fade out and sound of the mic problem.
* Martino - Autistici
not part of the autistici collective but closely linked. using their services for more than 10 years
providing privacy aware services like blogs, vpn's, mail, etc.
http://autistici.org
created by two collectives
the project is a collective, created by the connexion of two collectives (autistici/inventati)
At the end of the nineties in Italy when hacking was growing up in a political background
yearly hackmeeting from 1998
autistticiici comes from LOA hacklab in Milan, Inventati comes from more media-activism backgrounds in florence.
the project started in 2001.
busy mostly with media activism at the beginning
so as to create a multiplicity of subjects online
They not only created services as providers.
Realities outside of Italy concern them as well.
motto: condividere saperi senza fondare poteri (quote from primo moroni)
=share knowledge without founding power!
They also want to raise awarness, tools you can use to do cryptography, security, keep track of the Italian repression machine, etc.
creation of copyleft music...
Tinshey gives an insight into what what it t is to be a be a collectcollective.:ive - in italian now but will be translated to English
http://www.autistici.org/static/img/book/ai-book-kaos.pdf !
[[color/knitting of the not:-)etakers below, join the fun]]etherpad jacquard
also connected to gender issue
hosted italian activist
Practice and theory of being a collective are different. The book sheds light on this, and the recurring theme of not becoming technicians but keeping the focus on content not practicalities only.
everybody should be able to do the same things on the server. everybody sudo.
a.o. the least skilled should be at the keyboard :-)
The Police repression changed the project. they hosted moist of the italian activists and social center projects. So very often they had strategical attacks from the State. With the excuse of one email, the whole server was disconnected by Italian Police.
You cannot really trust that the State will remain lawful.
Plan R* is about a technological move that proposes a network of different servers in different countries, this way when a local police stops a server but it goes on elsewhere.
This plan needed a more technological background to be done and they collaborated and became more serious, complexe and reliable. they became like a provider of services, which they wanted to avoid in the beginning. they are discussing about the future now.
you can't really trust that the state is going to follow the state law
decentralized network of server that they are using
the project became more and more serious. they didn't wanted to provide services at the beginning, so a lot of talk about that within the collective
Maintanance and energy/money invested in hosting services gets larger and larger. Continuing discussion within the collective cause this is something they wanted not to become when they started the collective.
20-30 people in the collective now
O Gabriel: would be good to know how wikileaks is technically organised --> who could know that? nice question. any answers ??
Reni : How many people are involved ?
- 20 or 30 people more or less.
Link to statement of Autistici on the topic: http://cavallette.noblogs.org/2012/10/7997
15h34
* Bibliothecha (PZI)
----------------------------
http://pzwart13.wdka.ho.nl/wiki/Bibliotecha
André Castro, Lasse van der Bosch Christensen, Michaela Lakova, Roel Roscam Abbing
http://piratepad.net/bibliotecha
An offline server for digital books.
In PZI we would all read more or less the same texts, we did this clumsily pasing on usb's. So the online library could facilitate all this.
Then we came up with the idea of the offline digital library.
make an offine digital library to share/add new texts,
more or less a piratebox (most of the software) but tweaked
it's in this very room
it runs partly on calibre, a library managment software http://calibre-ebook.com/
it's possible to search by book, by keyword or contribute to the library (any format that calibre accepts into the library)
they have 51 books on the libray server.
There's Malthus and Adam Smith amongst the authors.
O An: dear note takers, I just realised we're already transcribing the video files ;-), they will be on video wiki, and by using key words you can scroll through it, or reedit fragments entc ---> GREAT :-)
http://activearchives.org/aaa/recent/
yep :-)
GREAT indeed
page loading on local server Bibliotecha
last option: upload a book (different formats)
how to handle the categories ? for the moment very crude : pzi publications, theses, media theory, others
& that's all
O: Going parallel/ serve locally like an actual physical library, the content comes from a particular context and are served in this context, there is a real purpose to it, not just sharing for the sake of sharing (Andre). Also the pi is hidden in a book, so the physical parallel is made tangible :) also the project is super well documented +++
RENI : What's your response to gender?
when the discussion comes to gender, the microphone is passed to the woman in the group.
system made in 24 hours, and we got other people to figure out some of the issues with the library. we opened up (giving the root password to everybody), dividing into teams (users team, library team...)
the woman says it is female and aks whether the others agree.
they share root-password
organised themselves in working groups
they are
learning by doing
Andre : how do you deal with the law ?
Andre : it is very local and off the internet.
it came from a specific context.
if it would stay here the whole weekend, it would become another library
a project like piratebox is missing a name or a round table intention : what's the purpose of sharing fiies ? interesting to see how other places like Constant would develop libraries if they had such a software.
why do you want to share files? for what purpose?
If you want to compile the software yourself, we have all the links. So this would link to the different parts on the piratepad.
picture
O: this can be one of the many futures of the library.
There is an image you can run right away, but it's more interesting to run it yourself to make all the choices.
it can be interesting to compile yourself
Documentation on PZI wiki here: http://pzwart3.wdka.hro.nl/wiki/Bibliotecha
----------------------------------------------
* Video recording Jan Gerber
Peter W showing the projected image of a disconnected server by Jan Gerber in Berlin, Pirate Cinema, Pad.ma etc
disconnected is the best way to keep the archive intact.
server of v2v & kein, disconnected now, they organized a lot of events, activism, it's under the bed of JG, so the best way to keep the archive is to disconnect it
video to watch online later: http://constantvzw.org/vj14/
Gerber asks the questions we ask on gender etc. all his answers are that technology does not have a gender
it's a "it"
O : how come ? we are in constant relationship, dialogue and handling, with machines and it's the human way of relating to the world.... (fastly said) except if IT is both sexes together giving new ones?
background as an activist
hosted byXS4all
------------------------------
15:58 RESEAU CITOYEN - Olivier.
http://reseaucitoyen.be
Masterless network, totally distributed with over 300 ppl involved. The wiki contained over 1000 pages and became a reference for others setting up similar networks globally
how can we develop and deploy networks as citizens. question asked collectively in July 2000.
servers & clients as the way the networks work: no master
a community building on top of that - up to 300 people joined (at one moment :-))
[[the peak is always the most rememberred moment]] [[=comments]]
a network was made over Brussel
wiki was thousands of pages
home -made antennas
in competitive contexte
specific context in Belgium
competitive, made it hard to build the network
lots of people came to discuss citizen city network and some came for internet access
At some point Jean-Charles took on a strange attitude, that of the tyran. He did not appreciate people's actions changing the original idea. Meshnetwork with fixed ip list. Jean-Charles blocked the wiki. This behaviour broke down the community. But now it starts again.
We would have needed IPV6 (to have dynamic ip addresses), not active at the time
O: recurring theme of paradoxal roles in collectives and as sysadmin, at the one hand total control, on the other letting go completely and the things that stand in between merging these roles, such as ego but also security of a server and the ppl hosted on it.
"Réseau maillé"
a new project neutrinet : an isp
http://neutrinet.be/
community is reliving now
la cambre wants to build a local network for the students, to host their own stuff online, plus there are a few buildings at the university
future network: ao Radio Panik, big building in Schaarbeek
16:09 4 questions
Gender?
- Ammm, i would like to say it has no gender but most of its technology has been made by men sooo
- Wendy : are you sure about that ?
- i'm not sure but it was probably mainly designed by men though it might have been constructed by women in Asia. We are trying to change that. I don't know how to say this, a personal view.
wendy : are you sure about that ?
the machines are probably made by women in china
not a patriarchal approach oi
O: asking about gender in relation to technology makes for a strange blend of stereotypes, prejudices, labelling or attaching roles to gender in a polarising (is that a word? yes) way and there is always just the object which is anthromorphized. Here questions pop up about many layers of tech from hardware manufacturing process, to engineering the hardware, software development, server maintainance and using the bloody boxes.
What about the law ?
Contact wih law
always in relation with law, netwoks owned by sys admin, we tried to avoid these laws,considering no one controls the network, you should have to go to each house to close it down
we've tried to avoid theses laws. every citizen is responsible for his own node and you have to go to their place to shut it down.
no one controls the network, every citizen is responsible for their nodes, and closing a node doesn't shut down the servers, so they'll have to shut down every individual house.
[[redundancy makes the information stronger. no competition in the typist pool here]]
association de fait (de fête ?) :-)
A citizen's network is like a political party, you cannot close it down.
Question Gabriel: is there a 'conduct' for your users? agreement?
Olivier translated https://guifi.net/es/ProcomunXOLN
http://en.wiki.guifi.net/wiki/Main_Page
to do the housekeeping, you have to go on the roof. doing it the least possible.
[[we start to have a how-to on how to be a sysadmin]]
In reseau citoyen, the idea is that everyone knows how it works. Of course it is not easy really.
Everyone had to know how the network was functioning to be able to participate, which made participation hard because it requires skills and knowledge that are not accesible.
16:19 mini break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:22 over :)
Laurent
Neutrinet "da serious isp" An associative ISP Citizens taking back control over the network. There is no real internet without net neutrality.
half of your life goes thru the internet, so it's important to have control
to create an isp you need two things :
- to bring data from the users' computers to the isp computers
- to bring data from our computers to the internet (we do it with vpn)
[[i missed the part about buying some services from a .fr isp, not sure if i got it]]
it's the gender that everyone wants to have. we are open to join.
Doocracy: if you want to be involved, you can join. The wiki says: with no administrative structure.
O: skilllllllzzzz!!! ???
we're trying that there will be no day to day maintenance
Q
16h29
FaiMaison - Kheops
http://faimaison.net
3 years old, part of the FFDN network
dsl connection in nantes
discussing net-neutrality, engaging with policians on issues of internet
association
In France there are whole areas without DSL coverage.
The federation is trying to create as many ISPs as possible.
the biggest association of the federation is about 400 users
gender : two servers. beer-gendered mostly.
the members of the association are powered by beer, and the two servers have names of local beers
no wine really in this region. humans are beer powered and both servers are called after local beers, Trompe-Souris and Kerzu
very few women in the association, :( hoping to change that
LAW : we're registered at the French Communications regulator organism to be able to talk to different people, politicians etc. and so to be able to have political action.
drawbacks : things that we can't do, but the idea of having a declared isp is to be political actor
50 members.
not clear what services, not his responsability
all decisions proposed in meeting, if no opposition it goes through
20 dsl lines, and we're building wifi nodes in nantes
we are going to provide wifi in the coming six months, working on it.
FFDN is association of associations
every year a general assembly is held and there are also monthly meetings
Server provider names marked on the map of France : Apinnet, Aquilenet, netopi, PC Light, NDN, tetaneutral.net, Teleragno, ilico, arn, LDN, franciliens.net, Auvernet, Rézine, and some other ones I cannot read even with my glasses on.
we don't have a lot of money but we don't spend a lot of money. the profit is used to buy infrastructure (2 euros margin per dsl line).
--------------------------
16:42 servus.at - Ushi Reiter
http://www.servus.at
They are based in a house, Stadtwerkstatt in Linz in Austria.
AEC-festival
she presents bio that is mixed with her own bio
In 1996 servus?at was founded under the banner access4all
as an artist i was asked to join by Gabriele Kepplinger. clickspace98 was a important project (first blinkenlights project she knew)
Gabriele Kepplinger asked her to participate to Stadtwerkstatt, a "key woman" as she called her because she was alone in the midst of a men-only environment.
Clickscape 98
big new media installation
you could manipulate lightning in front of building
Bugrace 99
i was working in the background, my background is graphic design and i did betting platforms online, you could bet cockroaches, electrochocks were given to the cockroaches
Commentary : is it because we are frightened and often disgusted by cockroaches and their special stamina that we do not feel any empathy or sympathy for them as we would towards other animals and even insects --cf. butterflies, etc.).
v.o.n Karawane 2003
http://karawane.servus.at
The art of enmities: camera set-up on camel's back, walked 70hrs through Austria, transmitted on webcam
I would never do it again
started to work for servus.at in 2005
converted to linux more and more, slow but sure process
really challenging work, problem with the ars electronica center, divorce with its
"male admin conflicts"
Dramatic Divorce of Ars Electronica and more drama still! Even though ppl were shouting from the window, a cable guy cut the cable and piew offline.... 2005 black monday. Ushi is unsure about the revival of servus after that was a good thing.
the divorce of Art Electronic center was the topic
Black Monday 13 November 2006: telecom car passed the building, cut main cable, colleague shouted: stop! It did not work, they went off line
More than a week rerouted through other connection maybe it would have been better if we would have gone offline
audience in the room going: "Ooooooo!!"
connected to the ACOnet network
not an ISP
mrtg.servus.at/router
graphs for technical persons
etherpad.servus.at
Who is doing it? (less than before... funding cuts)
3 people running servus.at: 2 males of which one very gender sensitive friend, Ushi "community relationship manager
a board of 6 people, 3 men and 3 women.
picture of the server room
What gender is your server?
if the machine doesn't have a name over special function, it's the name of a woman in science : hypathia, lenoreblum, borok
admins are not so happy that she's there, as a chef not wanting to read the f manual all the time
Who is using us?
200 groups
they provide free radio bandwith: I should ask them more money, they use a lot of bandwith
maiz.at : a migrand women organization
like Interface3
also:
http://kapu.at
http://cba.fro.at
additional activities : educational / one radio show per month . net-politics / culture in Austria.
http://liwoli.at - new year theme is infrastructure - 26 may-1st june
linux Woche Linz was the original name but Ushi forked it into art meets radical openness.
O: Ushi, can we have your slides please???
Funkfeuer network, one project: solar based node
try to get women to do stuff
26-1 June: Liwol: Autonomy impossible? SAVE THE DATE :)
State funding was cut last year...
(from 35000 euros to 15000)
She feels like being the Tante Emma Laden vs Supermarket feeling. the local personal contact store versus the impersonal giant super market. nice picture of Tante.
HELLO PPL Z CONNECTED TO THE PAD, IF YOU ARE NOT WRITING CAN YOU PLEASE LOG OFF
PPLEASE it 's disconnecting all the time merciii:-)
17:02: cigarette break
17:15 DISCUSSION moderated by Reni and invites ppl to ask questions right away if anything should have arisen during the previous presentations.
Are there other thoughts and ideas on the topics presented.
45 minutes to go
Q: Most projects today are trying to keep things on a human scale. How does for instance guifi do this as one of the largest projects presented today?
Gabriel from guifi: they are hosting lists to keep in touch with ppl and get ppl in touch with each other. Trying to look for public spaces to solve problems for instance with ISP's putting the actual nodes on the roof and not wanting to maintain them.
foundation
some of the problems in between the providers were having trouble between them.
so we were finding ways so that the rules could be implemented in the software so they could solve the problems they were facing.
Femke : is it possible to run contemporary internet services on a human scale or is it a romantic idea ?
A : you can scale up
that approach of scale is how the internet works (?). a lot of technical skills are in the hands of a few people, so it shapes the scale and this
is the problem.
Q: To scale out more ppl needs the technical skills to participate, maybe some ppl can explain how they see this?
A2 - Geraldine : we have our own space and are talking about having a server. It depends what you want. i f you want superfast connexion, no. but if you need a server to communicate, you can do a lot of stuff simply.
the question is what we want, an alternative version of facebook is probably not interesting enouhg. Define what we want is the most important.
i wouldn't like to have small scale facebook because it's not a good model of communication
Olivier/reseau citoyen : difficulty to share the knowledge. working also with cassiopea, we have problems with members that have rented space. our sysadmin is very good at documenting, which is rare. a problem of power.
we have members that have rented services and they have trouble to get knowledge by themselves, but we have excellent documentation mailing list. But all admin are not doing this. This is a problem of knowledge.
Involved in transition towns also, We re trying to implement tools for people to share info on the projects (like collective gardens, etc.)
difficulties to have "normal" people to use email, mailing lists, wiki, etherpad (also)
all the social movements and association should concertate on the fact we need to have the means to teach people. it is not about poor and rich but more about older people and younger ones, etc. it also depends on social environments.
digital divide : it's not btw the poor and the rich, but btw younger & older people, but it depends of the social environment. we have to have means to teach people. we need finances to open schools, have meetings
SpiderAlex : lots of dimensions beside the projects : rising awareness... small techie initiative but not intermediary initiative. a lot of kind of new initiaves. federation of competences btw initiatives.
[ [is this related to aymeric's talk about forking becoming positive ? is making an intermediary organization more difficult ? having to do coordination? sorry not very clear]]
we need finances to open schools, workshops for everyone, and there is blocage of this kind of activity.
Spideralex:
raising awareness is important, to show people how many things they can do by having access, etc. We need a lot of new kinds of initiatives. We need initiatives to ease the federation of initiatives.
gap in panorama, small initiatives get money to do things and they don't manage. It's important that all these decentralised small initiatives somehow share and disseminate their knowledge to be able to really scale up. Otherwise you get something like guifi that takes over the world and becomes evil LOL lack of organisation in these initiatives on level of education, fundraising, ... to enable ppl to actually participate.
Femke : is this transfer of knowledge working in FD DN? (France network)
A : i don"t have a lot of info on that. Usually a lot of people there is transfer of infor (??)
white zones in france without dsl
a lot of problems are technical problems of creating networks
it's our profession to do these kinds of things
iFemke: a lot of it is intermediary knowledge at Servus
Calafou Spideralex restates her answer for Ushi to join in
Ushi : we are facing a lot of problems right now. it's interesting to see there's organisations wanting to build alternatives. how can we keep them as sustainable networks ? and the maintream will develop even more. we have to see how all this will coexist. i don't know. there are other levels, regulation, net neutraliy. is it enough to build a lot of small islands ? maybe i misunderstood.
Indeed. Spideralex explains herself again.
interesting to see if there can be sustainable network
17h33
17:34 Q - Julia: pirate books project in bulgaria found themselves in some area as the only service, not an alternative. Ethical, everyone involved on voluntary basis. Parenting books, nationalists and romantic novels were there. Does this lead to enrichment of culture? More federation needed between projects? Or an overal goal of where we are going with this? What are we going to serve...???
the people who volunteer upload pirated version of mainstream love litterature, is it good for culture or not ? or advice on motherhood or
very collaborative, ethical, open - but does this contribute to culture?
don't we need an overarching idea of the internet ?
femke : what kind of internet ? and how are we going to serve ?
gabriel : discuss tactics. good to mix forum ?
project write to forget?
What kind of internet and what are we going to serve.
Bug the dog comes in the middle of the discussion circle. good sign.
17:37 dog shakes himself :-):-)
there is relationships and connections, maybe it would be good to mix forms
go with geeks of all parts and propose cultural input
is it infrastructure for infrastrure's stake?
very technical people but they want to do same as google, but ethically, maybe need to do something else? we need more expression?
Where is the content?
geraldine : we need more infrastructure for expression rather than content (which is protected by copyright). after all these years, i have the feeling that content is not helping us, it helps flickr...
O: was this discussion not about the future of independant server?
Myth of the
Marino: connecting to idea of technology: naive approach, problem connects to what Aymeric said yeserday, free software pattern to build technology to make the world better, we should have fun while making technology and not work
building the tech to make the world better to not work and have fun, instead we should just have fun while building tech and not work.
q : are you involving your closed relations/family in the projects you build ?
donna : using owncloud with her sister who is less tech-interested, and it works btw them.
Q: many people here envolved in hacking, do you envolve family and friends in your language? How to get my mother involved?
Donna: I'm a techie but not my sister, we use owncloud to share movies
was really easy to install for her, you don't have to do everything straight and hardcore, but can do little things.
OlivierI: i installed GNU Linux on people's computers that are not tech, storyteller... they're happy with it, they learned with it; my mother has a website on a raspberry Pi home server
O: thumbs up :-)
Reni': II'm part of a small art center in the center of Graz, everything with free software, I do openings, and include some part of technical information -> making it normal to talk about these things.
making it normal to talk about these things, they come back and want more explanations etc.
Wendy : i see fatigue if I look at people who run small initiatives, I see fatigue. no new generation to follow; who will keep the engine going?
anyone under 35 wants to run their own ISP?
Mara: with a colleague we had a mobile station, self-built 2 years ago; what do you do with it? I like the idea of calling it expression, not content
in the beginning they used it for demonstrations in the street, we felt it was not enough, not well organised, running after demonstration
last summer we made open call to organise our own demonstration, bring groups together in Athens; language is very important
the fun part was very little. organising was very tough. you have to deal with different concepts and perception of what is DIY, a festival in the street. a pain in the ass to make these groups discuss together.
the call was for feminist groups & lgbt groups
It's not enough to just make a tool, there's much more to it.
Not overlooking the content, the ideas behind the infrastructure. They did a call and organised things in advance instead of running behind demonstrations. It was very hard to deal with different ideologies. Discussions came up about who can use the infrastructure. Their wish was to give it to ppl they were in line with, not to rightwing extremists.
it was tough between them, there were very different ideologies, very different ideas of what they want to communicate and how.
very important to have content.
what was tough?
you have to deal with various ideologies, concept, perception of what is DIY, festival in the street?
project: anomalous rally - mlff.org
it is very important to have expression ?
17:51
peter w ; building something new is important. content with expression in it. building a diversity of tools is a form of expression, O : YES !!! maybe it doesn't exist enough
we need more type of expression, we all have a personal way to do thing (what you say & how you say it)
We shape our tools and our tools shape us, diversity is essential to also create diversity of expression. Ecology, sustainability, generation issue. It's not about the next project being 'better' than the previous, it's about diversity.
How you say things is as important as what you say.
There's many strategies connected to building technology.
it's also an ecological questions.
it's also a question of generations.
For me it's very important that small projects exist.
how do you build networks that are sustainable ? if we run out of ideas, perhaps it needs to die, but new projects are not about improvements, but about how ideas flow. there's a huge value where there are a lot of small projects.
jara : technology of languages, alex was saying gender is a tech, humans and not humans. thinking about the wide range
social agency of languages, servers, genders
challenge to think about master/servant, power relationships, power
if we're talking about this wide range
we start thinking of diverse modes of (??)
recognise the social agency of gender, technology, servers, language. it's crucial to look into the questions Are you being served ? a challenge to think of the Master and Servant relrationships and also between technologies themselves. we are in a relation with this huge range of what we understnad as technology and not only the servers themselves.
the principle of symmetry and ask for social agency on them and on us, we are cohabitating in a companionship.
André : i'm under 30 but i don't represent a generation. a few years ago, i started to work with a small hacklab in Lisbon, but political differences in how tech was perceived made me frustrated.
interested in tech only, gnu/linux apolitical
country in deep economic crisis should build solutions and be more aware, maybe it is my ignorance of initiatives going on
i see a big interest in technology itself
Andre speaks of Portugal.
studying at an art school in the netherlands, i don't see any interest in politics and network politics around me.
What are the politics within the network?
Am I being W?
Marino:problem of younger generation is they see technology as an object and not as a system, it is an educational thing
early generation that developed autonomous servers, did not have packages, you needed to go in deeper in the workings of all the layers
packaged into
everything is more packaged but it's more difficult to go directly into the layers of the tech itself ?
18:00 Reni: it's six.
18h02
Olivier Reseau citoyen:
the idea of building upon open standard is the basic thing.
upon them we can do lots of things, little things that sum up to great things.
in a spark, it can go around the planet.
f.ex. the mesh network thing is a small part of the internet's stack of software but can do a lot. it's just an exemple.
mesh network : a small part of the internet but it can build a new way to communicate
go into open standards as a quality of the future
there is a strong need for teaching people that that can be done.
DIY manifesto
digital camp in catalunya to teach kids to install fiberoptics.
Gabriel: how to interface, to destroy and learn to make things work.
teaching people is very important. design things openly. like this guy who did a manifesto on it. i taught on how to install fiber optics. teach a kid to do that. Hox (???) is it important.
Gabriel :
You create a context for things to happen.
O: How does disseminating skills fit into the convenience age where prosumer myth ended in customizable Nike shoes??? Is time a factor?
18:06 end of discussion 18h10
O: I, robot; I, root
there 's two other meetings like Art meets Radical Openness in June Liwoli + /etc in Calafou in august
find a way to continue the discussion
MOVE to w-o-l-k-e
----
[little comment: Marthe's performance was not filmed, because delicious food was served and we 'forgot' --> maybe ask personal impressions of people present to go with the pictures?]
Home as a server happened saturday Pm under warm winter sun, as real physical computing it implied all of us who participated energically.
Mimicking computer functionning through human energy, transforming ourselves into cpu data kernel hard drive booting rebooting getting into Kernel Panick and finally managing to get through the difficulties of sending data out, making a Wiki that eventually achieved in the very physical process of making pancakes for the group during the full afternnon.
I was the sound card difficult task quite a lot of freedom and with my portaphone I was having freedom of speach I had to find a way to connect to the other parts of the functionning system. Establish inner means of communications hence I ended up reporting the inside happening, what was real time, stating the alerts.
----------------------
Hier zijn een paar video's die Gijs heeft gemaakt:
http://video.constantvzw.org/VJ14/marthe-perfo/
Heel veel foto's door Gijs en Michael:
http://gallery.constantvzw.org/index.php/VJ14?page=8
ga ook naar de volgende pagina's voor meer
----
wolke evening
20:31 Femke explains what has happened in the past 2 days and Reni recaps this afternoon.
one of the topics that came up:
1/'scaling'
there is a lot of people engaged into developing possibilities.
hard to share that type of knowledge:
- bridge to others/with others
- find methods/ressources to do so on many scales
- find a way how to share, unstack from closed surroundings
bridges are lacking, on many scales
How to get out of the island situation where ppl are isolated when there could also be a federation of competences. O: -> 'con-federation of competences'
[[some notetakers are matching their etherpad colors with their clothes]]
2/ the question of sustainability (how many cables run somewhere, how much energy the persons have to go on). Not only thinking on a planet and personnal scale at the same time.
There is no overall strategy or solution.
need for a strategy, we don't have it yet [[does it exist ? or is it even desirable ?]]
Do infrastructures need content or expression? Can we spend all our time on maintaining the structures, do they have a right to exist and a function on their own?
is infrastructure there for its own sake ?
do you need to channel "content" (or expression) ?
O : the medium is the message or form follows fun(ction)
it was about the feminist perspective on service. to understand gender as technology, something to take part about
understand gender as a technology
O: very important point
what are the politics of technologies ? this is the question Reni leaves us with.
a question to take away
Femke : texts on free software and its ethics and rhetorics by Julia Rone
20:40 Julia Rone, playing hard : open source hardware production as a game (changer)
the more i read, the more i get conservative about the topics i research.
tonight i'm going to talk about an open hardware project
i was fascinated by this & researched it
picture : a commercial to go to a shantytown in africa
picture: Emoya, commercial beginning of December 13, luxury resort, the visitors get opportunity to go to shanty town
[with underfloor heathing and wireles???]
it offers you to experience poverty and then go back to your rich life
-> play with poverty & return to the safe environment of your life
connection of open source software and international development
Society with an open code which we can tinker with and change the things we don't like (nationalist italian philos. like negri)
What I'm interested in here is how the metaphore of open source was transformed into politics.
68 generation Freedom, Free Individual, and capitalism accepted that somehow.
O : capitalsim did everything to kill that by pretending to support it.
negri/
'society with open code'
capitalist society has accepted artistic critique of society easily
difficult to talk about openness and individualty without falling in trap of FB
O : FB is a problem but also part of "public" space and folk.popular current culture, should not be rapidly despised. Cf. Michel de Certeau and reappropriation of the city, the network, etc.
very linear & straightforward critique: optimistic modernism, underdeveloped countries will progress into developed countries
world system theory : underdeveloped countries is because of contact with more developed countries, because they were colonized. macro-scale projects for those countries to develop but it didn't work out. post-colonial/post-structuralist/post-feminist theory that was useful for a moment but were somehow incorporated by capitalism/opening the door to neo-liberalism
maya fuchs (?)
Wikiwashing
Corporations use the principle of openness in order to conceal unethical practices.
Like Wikipedia and the way it enhances knowledge.
O : it also does, not to be despised either. :-)
Rhetorics of openess and sharing used to create trust and hide other more shady practices.
wikipedia exists in the context of a poor planet
"Wealthy networks exist in the context of a poor planet" kleiner 2006 (http://www.networkcultures.org/_uploads/%233notebook_telekommunist.pdf)
Alison Powel discusses different open hardware production (http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/46173/). democratizing production through open knowledge - an interesting read
Concept of tinkering, When everything is falling apart you can find quick fixes for everything. DIY merge with technology. Industrial revolution -> Bre Pettis
Wave of producing open source machines/hardware: is empowering
also part of larger cultural mouvement
piracy
maker culture
Reengineering
O : Displacing the software question towards the hardware question. Very interesting. (mental note : reread Kittler's "There is no software" in this context and in 2014)
TINKERING
very glorified in dev
jugaad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugaad) : when everything is falling apart, you focus on the survival element
O: cf. interactivos 2011: presentation of brazilian artist talking about 'gambiarra', a
practise in shanty town to quickly fix things with creativity (needs references :-))
a quick fix
Eric Shiff
industrial revolution 2.0
Rich kid toys versus survival within poverty DIY Utilitarian versus hedonized DIY.
Utilitarian DIY vs. Hedonized DIY
can we consider them the same ?
O : is this function vs. pleasure ? because i'd take both!
"playful creativity for the people to engage in it"
'Open source ecology'
global village construction set (gvcs) : mostly in the us so far even if it's potentially worldwide
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Construction_Set
Bottom up approach to poverty, sustainablility and development. Why doesn't it happen in other contexts, where it is more needed? Is it hedonistic DIY? Is it excluding? It uses online sharing and not everyone has access, not everyone speaks English/French. Can you trust and share if you don't share a common culture? Then there is the skill issue/training, buying materials and having the tools/infrastructure to start working on these machines.
why is it happening in the west and not where it is needed?
O : good point on the final destination of projects for the poor. do they have access to it ?
There is often no internet access, like in africa, the fact of sharing has no help effect.
Almost all projects are in English or in French
O : very good point. start translating
taking about sharing : with who are you sharing ?
what if the machine break ?
the whole idea is grassroots participation
also the big question WHOM do we share with.
the idea is to use older machines and import them
1st big obstacle : land
if you do not have that first thing you can do nothing.
is agriculture the solution ?
The liberator is an open source compressed brick maker. Is it fulfilling a need outside of its US context and is it producable in a country where metal is stolen and melted and very rare.
2nd: you have generalists, not experts
why buy a lesser product ?
Is agriculture the solution ??
all the people who work in this project studied at Princeton, for them this is an alternative, their plan B - they can always go back to their first plan
what happen if you don't have a plan b ?
O : there is always a plan B, only most of the times it is not the same as ours. which does not mean they have ressources and it's alright. It rather means they can be ressourceful in ways we might not even be able to see. they are NOT victims just because they are not Europeans.
[here she comes to the core of the auestion, that is the moment she uses auotes :-)]
tony prug in the journal of peer production : it's inappropriate to see p3p as a mode of production
it is not approrpiate to use FLOSS software without thinking about the wider political context
the biggest challenge of democracy is not that they aren't using FLOSS but that it isn't placed within a wider political context, it's more complex. if not, it's building infrastructure for the sake of itself. of course, you can express yourself but you need to achieve certains goals (not possible to be reflexive all the time). it should be integrated into wider set of time. we have to be more democratic and for that we need to know more about technology.
only technical aspect is not enough
Not everone can be overly reflective all of the time, in fact it is a luxury. Open hardware projects sometimes are at risk of a type of colonialism, forcing a bottom up approach in a top down way.
O : nobody can
O: I agree
fpp
21:04 Questions
wendy : do you know about makers faire africa ? make is run by o'reilly but for that even, they used it without asking o'reilly about it http://makerfaireafrica.com/
we have connections with senegal, dakar - through France
there are things going on, bu tit is not easy
openness is not an issue, it is about doing
Natasha: many projects in LA
claude levi-strauss : diff btw the culture of bricolage (tinkering) and engineering. we should not abandon engineering, and there's a value in tinkering. the problem is to use tinkering as a way to mask other problems
Tinkering (ad hoc solutions) versus engineering (overarching plan guiding the design of things): conclusion of the talk is maybe that we should not abandon engineering culture.
Marino A : tinkering is vaguly, used entrepreneurs self-made man,
it's too wide : you can divide btw hacking and capitalisme & all the stop in between
geraldine : I'm from Mexico that could be considered in developement country and sometimes it is so advanced you can't believe it.
putting things from the bottom & capitalize them
O: is it the disneyficiation of instant-fix-solutions? like they took the fairy tales to turn them into commercial films with copyright
and patents.. in twenty years time the plastic shelter mght be top
if you have a truly grass root initiative, it should come from there (floss). my bulgarian backgound (in EU but not rich). authentic grassroot mouvements are nationalists, if you would go and talk to them, they would say very nasty things
vs
lobby groups that talk about opennes and partiipation
Question of Julia whether the romantic image that exists in rich countries of bricolage solutions don't work in actual poverty there is perhaps a real wish for engineered solutions to for instance shanti towns.
Jara : I come from a rescue country Spain, amazing things like this multitasking self-sustaninble infrastructures being exposed to selling while at the same time people being kicked out of their places while the country is supposedly being rescued. about genealogies for such things. for example the Whole Earth catalog initiative, in the 70s in the US, but at the same time it makes me wonder about to what amaount there has been during these years a strong depolitisation.the shape of sth that is like i don"t know like a concrete local context.
Donatella : about developing countries and infrastucture focusing instead of the sharing of knoledges, in countries like Mosambique and Malawi, they do not know how to use it. the language problem is huge, so China built a meeting room with lots of materials and when a person askss the responsible when it was last used the answer is it has never been used.
the knowledge of use is not shared.
[[knowledge as a product to be sold with free infrastructure ?]]
this is the most important factor.
O : YES
another ex is about a center specifically about malaria which does not exist as such
Julia: more interesting to know what people in underdevelopment countries will create in terms of knowledge
australian scholar (???) who's writing about freedom, esp of internet, but there's always a ref to the american understanding of freedom, while there's many other ways
western rethorics are imposed, difficult for peripheric countries to get envolved
21:22 Christoph: you referred to a very specific example like the liberator, but it could be put much more simply in terms of literacy, the ability and opportunity to read and write.
O : remember TAZ (not everybody has to be alphanbetised either) It does help in software development though ... :) of course. it is all foreign languages and ways of making. but they have so many of their own. we should never forget that when we go to "save" them.
Cf. http://seminaire.erg.be/index.php?/narration-speculative/michael-taussig/
Q: what is TAZ? Temporary Automous Zones by Hakim Bey :-)
Juliane: worked in South America, followed training in belgium with the government, strong feedback of th colonization period of Belgium (Congo)
concept ready about what we call 'appropriate technology'
tinkering & engineering is not a dichotomy for me, cf eco-feminism. monsanto wants to commodify the world, but there's open source way to use. i use open source to fight capitalism. and i make the parallelism with other elements (soil, water, seeds)
Gabriel: in spanish, translated by jara:
Q; How do you see the language barrier and how can it be changed?
Julia: we don 't need a global language. Barriers can be productive. they are a place of translation. to avoid the barrier, we just use the common language, english.
Scale is not only about multiplying the amount of "users" but more in ecological terms. We should be more carefull with terms such as openness, free and diy
Julia : barriers can be productive, translators, inventors
O : it is a good idea to keep in mind :-) there should actually be both : the idiom, the mother tongue, the esperanto, the code, etc. Actually not both but "plusieurs" as in "the more the merrier"
a large scale on many levels, technology being one of them. we should be more careful with the terms o
21:28 break
Femke : let's have a drink and walk the place :-):-):-)
Miriam my host is here :-)
21:40 Georgia Tsaklanganos
-------------------------------------------
From both Greece and USA, Femke presents Georgia. Taking adavantage of Artikel 36.3 she helped make European parliament vote down ACTA last year.
She's working for the Green party and interested in how the law touches democracy.
For this talk we moved the chairs in a circle.
The whole idea with the chairs is: this is a discussion.
the microphone is going to be passed around
i'm also a theorician + practical feminist
I'm a practical and theoretical feminist.
Article 36.3 of the european parliament, it worked against acta
O : this article was obsolete and unused until Georgia stumbled upon it. Thank you GT.
ACTA violates fundamental rights, it's as simple as that.
O : I want to live with GT
ACTA is an agreement for a TTP (transatlantic partnership) : it is not ready for a defeat yet, it's at the discussion/information page, in 3-6 months, it will be ready
I'll try and gather the thoughts of the past few days.
begin by explaining narrative of privilege.
through quetions we can then conclude how we'd like to proceed.
O : nice process idea. let's practice it.
Framing by Georgia for the discussion:
Women were deliberately excluded, men designed law for men.
O : in such a society, none of us typewriters would have been Us typing right here right now (and elsewhere).
Right to vote & public private dichotomy started to crumble. Women started demanding more recognition in the private sphere.
law, economics, politics and society in general has been constructed for men by men, women were excluded, on purpose, kept in the private space. women git the right to vote (1st wave of feminism)
the law is based on this
1st wave of feminism: right to vote
after ww2,
2nd wave of feminism : recognition also in the private sphere
A woman (WHO ?) studied
kindergarten children
little girls (interested in dolls) and little boys (more active) are different
she developed Difference Feminism
mental capabilities are different
What do you think ?
Seventies feminists were shocked by the difference dichotomy of boys think differently then girls and wanted equality. The norm was white heterosexual ablebodied man, other groups started demanding equality to the norm.
depending on what we think, we conclude into a numbers of issues
male life cycle
the norm : male able-bodied white heterosexual, christian person
we all follow a male lifecycle
this is the norm that has all the rights.
first women started saying we want equal rights
who comes second ? white woman or black man ?in the pyramid of hierarchy:
O: pfffff, it depends so much of the context, but then again. the law is not so contextual, or is it?
Is this equality horizontal approach reinforcing the norm? What role does difference play in this debate? Multisource, open, fluid identity is what we want, but how do we get there? Enter the Internet... borderless???
we still live a very normative system, it reinforced the norm that hasn't been deconstructed. if we deconstruct this norm, what is sameness and difference ?
reconstructing of a multiple source, open and fluid identity but how to get there ? and there's where the internet comes in. it's international, but is it ? it's male dominated on the technical side, and on the content side, it's very sexist
maybe we can pause here and ask about the reproduction of privilege
let me make the question simpler : identity-wise, how many of us have changed our identity online ?
geraldine : we cannot talk about identity and gender without talking about class
what do we believe about sameness and difference
deconstructong the single identity and reconstruction of the multiple, fluent identity.
how to change the norm to a multiplicity sort of identity.
This is where the internet comes in. No borders.
O : there are borders
'On the internet there are no borders'...
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Identity: how many of us have changed our identities online? And specifically their gender identity. A few hands rise.
reproduction of privilege: access to the internet is not equal, so ..
Audience comment: maybe this has changed over time. Camgirls book describing how we portrait ourselves online. Nowadays you are forced by infrastructures to consolidate your identity on multiple platforms. In the past it was more easy to change identity.
Google requires to join my accounts and be the same person on different platforms
the solution : closing browser windows
marthe : You mentioned the seventies. Today it's more about thinking, brain and neuroscience. cartography of the brain. Another space of thinking.
marie-francoise (66): I'm probably the only one here to have lived through the 70s as an adult.
more and more i see that people use their civil identity. important as feminist because we carry name of a man (husband, father). why do we have to use on the internet what napoleon implemented ?
Why, in this free internet world do we have to still use this convention imposed upon us by Napoleon, carrying a male name/patriarchical naming conventions?
An Mertens : remark on vbrain and neuroscience. from the text annalysis persperctive,
university of antwerp : analyzing online writing practice. a big corpus of female and male authors were analyzed and they wrote differently, how the average man would write, how the average woman would write, and there's no average
they analysed a big corpus of male and female authors. interesting to learn how the medium man would wirte and how the medium woman.
we know today what grammar is. how we use it.
Wendy : how were they sure the women were women and men were men ???
O : especially at the time lots and lots of women would write as men for obvious reasons, and vice versa for perhaps less obvious reasons.
Reni: there was a shift happening at the end of the nineties. First you could really use whatever name you wanted imagining an identity for yourself, but at some point, more and more ppl entered into the same networks and people started to control people, peer pressure making it less free and playful then before.
really brutal shift in identity, identification.
georgia : we want a fluid identity, not a fixed one. the question which is popping up (in feminist circles) is how to deal with violence against women, sexism, online
article 19 : promoting a intermediary liability for sexism
Georgia: Do we give up on this free, open, fluid space? There is such a thing called harrassment online and there are propositions to make the intermediary liable for this.
Geraldine : I don't a wall to protect me.
Reni: I really want net neutrality. Internet is infrastructure. Transgender topics are removed from wikipedia and youTube. Everybody uses the street, we never ask what the people do that walk on it.
everybody uses the pavement and the street. this is infrastructure. let's make that possible again. let's think how.
GT : on the positive side, if we see the shift of social movemnts online actually there are benefits because we deconstruct identity. wa can organise and this is a benefit in deconstructing the triangle hierarchy. Internet overcomes ...
Audience reaction.
O : does it ?
Eleonor : you can't be essentialist about technology one way or the other.
diff forms of organisation
eleanor : lots of different ways to use tech, some which reproduce privileges, some not Some of the projects we saw today set their own norms of how they want to organise themselves and this is really exiting.
marino : structure that we saw today are an exception to what's going on online. mobilisation is done on facebook and twitter is very hierarchical (for instance via a page sets admin and post rights in very specific ways).
22h13 hidden message check the timeslider haha here
GT : the factor here is having a common agenda rather than a leadership oriented structure.
it's very difficult to get out of binary, even for us so it seems
GT : what about cybercrime ? what do you think of it online (criminal child-abuse images...)
femke : you're working on abstract questions : imagining there's no such thing as a crime online and think about regulations that could go against it.
what kind of regulations and restrictions are we talking about ?
countries decide what kind of regulations : self-regulations regimes (that is regulations by the content provider) is going on sweden and uk.
Germany for instance it's just a judge deciding to shut down a server and can go ahead and aplply this without any need for a warrant.
Who is this catch-all crime thing or is it specifically for child abuse ? but the window was created.
gt works with the pirate party in sweden
a : you can't decide beforehand to regulate one content, and not the other.
Reni : sending a parcel (i.e. Delivery for ... by bitnik) one of these masterpieces. what we totally aggree upon is : nobody ever opens my letter.
O : thumbs up
R : Either we accept evrrything is opened or we do not. there can't be a discussion on that level. this is stupidity.we really have to get aroubnd that.
GT: have you been harassed online? If yes how did you deal with it?
Reni: no law can prevent that. The types of harassment can be so different and so subtle. There are no filters for that. Acting the way you think is right is the only way to achieve this.
juliane : society is immaterial. the law reflects the state of exploitation. speaking on anthrolopology. we have moral ethics to deal with, law, but we don't deal with this. child abuse is only the top level of something we should deal as feminists. it's only a pretext for a regulation of fundamental rights and cutting it. internet can be a way to change things, we can't accept a mode of regulation which is the reflection of power
22h29
femke : i'm a bit lost when you connect hate speech and child abuse issues. systemically it does not work. How sexism could be diminished with the same regulations than would go with child abuse ? How could this work in practice?
gt : i use this as an example to illustrate how the extreme is used. i'm not in favor in discussing this specific thing, part of building the whole paradigm.
Reni : we need a statement.
natascha : soehow it's always the same thing. children, protection,...every time technology comes up. it's sth people can say and that is worth saying.
GT : But is it part of the norm ?
N : yes it is part of the manipulation of the norm
geraldine : blocking sites don't work
eleanor : agains child abuse, it happens at grassroots level
donna :we should discuss normativity philosophically, and then i thought sth it 's always strange to have these feminist reflexions and go back to the 70s i was born then. There is technology, the binary 0 and 1, it's about ethics, good and bad, all that wre trying to understand together. I thought we were going to open up the debate and not go back to the 70s in the therapeutical way and bring u p all our needs.
We need to fight somewhere in a very dichotomic world but then we risk fighting against ourselves.
O : OUiIIIIIII
gijs : we've been talking about 0 and 1 as being black and white but today 64 bits can create numerous shades of grey.
64 bits now so enormous amount of shades of grey Aplause
O : OUIII bis
gt : i'm a 3rd wave feminist, finding our own voice theoretically
finding your voice the 3rd way
the internet as a fantastic tool to achieving that. does it work ? what do we think ?
Femke: is it possible on the internet today to express yourself the way you think is necessary and the way you want?
marie-françoise : Comment -> where you are is not who you are. Worried about individualism as opposed to sisterhood.
where you are is not who you are. i'm from the generation of sisterhood in which i still believe. in the binary, yes/no, i'm missing the "maybe" and it's not the shade of grey
femke : how do you speak from a situated place ? the need to express myself is not so important, it's more speaking from context. stating where you speak from. that's why i'm interested in free software, there's a potential to make that kind of place.
O : gogogogogo Femke
GT : I dont really knowhow to escape either tje binary way f speaking or subconsciously choosing identities. it's the question of choosing an identity.
enca : try to live one week without identity. without the perspective.
An M. : how do you do that ?
enca : try one way to walk, speak to people with no identity process.
O: turing test. parler à travers des boîtes (black boxes or transparency)
try to use passive way in French
in French adjectives are gendered. try to speak without grammar accordance for instance.
I can go in a winkel, in a shop and play because he does not know who i am.
and then you can see where problems might ask.
kids when they re seven or eight they ask their parents, the binary system has rooted in.
in real life it's interesting becaue it's one to one person confrotnation. then you see you don"t have the answer.
Femke : we need to stop this discussion here, even though there's lot to say. Thank you very much to Georgia and us all.
-----
An: was offline in the last bit because of network
here is my bulk of notes
we all agree: we don't want a fixed identity
reni: social control on virtual identities: you wrote you were there, but it is not true
--> and also self-control
gender harassment online
what do we do with hate practise
what with male domination & techies of internet
there is genuine immunity, but should be a system in place to combat harassment online
cfr Sayak Valencia
3 cases of transgender removed from youtube
internet = infrastructure: everything is possible, define what is not possible
annoying that it goes aleatory
everybody uses pavement/street, no one asks who they are
O: there are a lot of people who are asked for an identity when they walk down the street!
most mobilisation: fb or twitter -> have other norms than the systems we saw today
cybercrime
O: she seems to be testing hot issues in political green party on critical informed audience
either we accept that anything is sent over th internet, or we don't
cfr my letter in the post has never been openened
have you ever been harassed online? what is harassment? can be very suttle
cfr documentaire anneessens, femme dans la rue
22:26: dutroux!
say no to regulation against porn etc but we all exclude advertising (anti-porn plugin???)
22:38: bug shakes himself out
64-bits computers: can create enormous amounts of shades of grey
3rd wave feminism: trying to find our own voice, individually
internet s tool to realise 3rd wave